Trout advice please

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david white
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by david white » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:44 pm

Ken,
It's no secret that the tree hugging rose tinted do gooders mis-calculated in the release of otter pairs on and around the River Rye some years ago, my understanding is they released the number of pairs of otters in a mile whereas the formula should have the number of miles required to sustain one pair of otters.......however nature will take its only course the waterways will loss many of their fish stocks so the otters will move on to still waters they don't care if it's YDAA venue a trout farm or a pond in a family garden

Baldy ( him mate hope alls well )
Unless you, I or the public get footage of an otter catching and partially eating its prey before it discards the carcass too many people don't want to believe those lovely furry creatures can decimate fish stocks

Otters are not the total blame, of course not, pesticides, water abstraction, cormorants, poaching etc etc are all part of the mix the one that shouldn't be there..... they wrongly released otters ( of course all other reasons need addressing but..... )

bnud
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by bnud » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:56 pm

How can the carp have been thriving in Park View if they were ( judging by you ageing them and saying low in your post) not naturally replenishing there own numbers, by spawning successfully regularly?

Remember carp are an introduced species into our country and in many, many waters (especially in the north) they struggle to spawn successfully, so maintaining carp sport in the long run on many waters will have to involve restocking at some point with or without otters.

Carp stocks in park view or any other given stillwater containing carp is in no way comparable to a wild trout stocks in a wild trout stream.

Jon

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Baldy
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by Baldy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:39 am

david white wrote: Baldy ( him mate hope alls well )
Unless you, I or the public get footage of an otter catching and partially eating its prey before it discards the carcass too many people don't want to believe those lovely furry creatures can decimate fish stocks
I'm good thanks mate :)

There are plenty of images/videos on the net from recent years! And plenty of big names banging the drums about it.
Last edited by Baldy on Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Baldy
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by Baldy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:58 am

bnud wrote:How can the carp have been thriving in Park View if they were ( judging by you ageing them and saying low in your post) not naturally replenishing there own numbers, by spawning successfully regularly?

Remember carp are an introduced species into our country and in many, many waters (especially in the north) they struggle to spawn successfully, so maintaining carp sport in the long run on many waters will have to involve restocking at some point with or without otters.

Jon
Hi Jon.

I fished Park View for carp from approx 1992 to 2012 (with a break from about 2000 - 2005) before I gave it up due to the otters having their share. From '92-2011 I was catching the same fish year in, year out and they were in fine condition, some tremendous specimens to be had! I would suggest the lack of success with spawning could be due to the low stock levels and presence of water borne predators, indeed PV had a thriving head of pike and some large perch too! I would imagine these stocks of fishy predators could quite happily take care of a stock of 20 or 30 carps fry year in, year out.

I agree with you that on many waters, the fish do not resplenish naturally. I'd say that's more common than not on most of the waters I fish and frequent stockings are the way of managing stock levels, but I am not a biologist so couldn't explain why?! I wouldn't say though that this does not mean the fish are not thriving, as the condition of the original PV stock was never less than immaculate which could be considered a good indicator of health.

However, you cannot look beyond the fact that the otters that started to frequent Park View in approx 2011 wiped out that entire stock over the space of a year or two. Losing one or two a year to natural age related causes one can live with, losing the entire stock in such a short space of time was nothing short of a disaster, and i'm sure NO ONE wants to see that level of devastation happen ever again.

Cheers.
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kenkroy
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by kenkroy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:12 pm

When YDAA bought Park View back in the 80s otters where present and lots of weed but no Carp !
Why would we expect to have a thriving Carp stock if there was not a natural one there before anglers got involved.
For the record Otter have always eaten fish and there is no Trout in Park view so I see little relevance of PV in this topic
Shall we just start a topic for anti otter issues ?
Back to topic IMO there has never been a high stock of fish in the Rye and there is little evidence to support that there ever will be .
Ken

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Re: Trout advice please

Post by kenkroy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:17 pm

david white wrote:Ken,
It's no secret that the tree hugging rose tinted do gooders mis-calculated in the release of otter pairs on and around the River Rye some years ago, my understanding is they released the number of pairs of otters in a mile whereas the formula should have the number of miles required to sustain one pair of otters.......however nature will take its only course the waterways will loss many of their fish stocks so the otters will move on to still waters they don't care if it's YDAA venue a trout farm or a pond in a family garden
Dave.
what is this secret based on. Have you access to any records or is the secret based on hearsay or gossip.
When Otters were hunted for sport they thrived on a high fish population and did not eat all their food supply, the fish, so where if there is an Otter population now thriving are the fish?
They cannot survive without fish can they ?
Ken

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Baldy
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by Baldy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:15 pm

kenkroy wrote: For the record Otter have always eaten fish and there is no Trout in Park view so I see little relevance of PV in this topic
Shall we just start a topic for anti otter issues ?
I would happily do so Ken, but the last two posts I made in the members section (with questions put to YDAA) seem to have been met by a wall of silence so there's little point :lol:

But I concur that I may have contributed to this thread going off topic, apologies... :oops:
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AJB
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by AJB » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:43 pm

There are some clips on youtube showing evidence of sewerage discharge around the Brawby area so maybe that's a factor too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUTlYVk4oNQ&t=84s

kenkroy
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Re: Trout advice please

Post by kenkroy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:34 am

Adrian
That is interesting any Idea of when and where.
If that in the spring as it looks the drop in oxygen levels would have a lot greater effect on fish spawn and fry than Otters will.
I we could get some details we could possibly take YWA to court using fish legal part of the angling trust which the club are members of
Ken

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Re: Trout advice please

Post by AJB » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:54 pm

Hi Ken

Just came across it on youtube last winter when I was looking for info on the Rye.
Click on the link on my last post, it's been put on there by a guy called Simon Thackray and from what I gather he's something to do with a local arts venue called "The Shed", so I suppose if you go on the Shed website you'll find his contact details.

All the best

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